The Europe In Synch Podcast
The Europe In Synch Podcast
EP16: Milena Fessmann (Cinesong/Sugartown) - The Ever-Changing Mood Of Music Meeting Film.
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Welcome to episode sixteen of the Europe In Synch podcast.
This time we are talking with Milena Fessmann, founder of Cinesong and Sugar Town Films, based in Berlin.
With over two decades collaborating with legendary director Wim Wenders, Milena shares revealing stories from the soundtrack creation for "Perfect Days" (2023), including successfully securing Rolling Stones tracks while facing an unexpected roadblock with Prince's estate. "Directors have a tendency to believe in miracles," she notes, explaining how she balances filmmaker dreams with industry realities.
Beyond music supervision, Milena's work as a documentary film producer (including "The Potential of Noise" about influential producer Connie Plank), radio DJ, and World Soundtrack Academy board member gives her an unparalleled perspective on the intersection of film and music.
As streaming platforms transform production landscapes and AI-generated music emerges on the immediate horizon, Milena remains convinced that authentic artist connections will endure. Her career exemplifies how relationship-building, copyright expertise, and musical instinct combine to create memorable cinematic moments.
We recorded this conversation in the kitchen of the Cinesong/Sugartown office in Berlin on 26.08.2024.
We hope you enjoy the episode and thank you for listening!
Find out more about our guest:
Homepage: Cinesong
Homepage: Sugar Town Film Productions
Music Supervision: Perfect Days - official trailer
Film Documentary: The Potential Of Noise - official trailer
If you have comments about this episode - or have questions, ideas, requests, recommendations, or general feedback, feel free to contact us at feedback@europeinsynch.net.
Europe In Synch is created, managed, promoted, and driven by several European organizations and companies and is a truly cross-border collaboration.
The goals are to bring together professionals from the music sector with decision-makers from film & advertising to provide a real-life, hands-on, learning experience, and to promote European music in the complex field of synchronization, through communication, knowledge-building and networking via focused mentoring and peer training sessions.
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Intro/Outro music is an instrumental edit of "Gimme" by Daffodils.
They're on Soundcloud.
Europe In Synch is co-funded by the European Commission.
This podcast is a SuperSwell production.
Meeting Milena in Berlin
Speaker 2Welcome to the Europe in Sync podcast. We're back in Berlin and talking today with music supervisor Milena Fessmann. Hello, milena. Hello. We're in Schöneberg, a neighbourhood of Berlin I love a lot. The first apartment I had in Berlin was just around the corner from here. We're also around the corner from where David Bowie famously had his apartment during the 70s when he lived here. We're in a very vibrant area. Is it important to you to be in a creative, active neighborhood for your work? Do you think?
Speaker 3That's an interesting question. I think I would say yes, probably because it's just nice to just pop out of the door, go into a restaurant. Is it an inspiration? I'm not really sure, because I'm working on my desk and it's nice to look out of the window. But I think it's nice for me Probably not for the work, but for me. Living in this lovely and lively area is quite nice, yeah.
Speaker 2Very good, and your office is made up of a couple of different companies. There's CineSongs, which is a music supervision and copyright clearance company that you founded, and there's Sugartown Film Productions, which makes films and documentaries. What's your role in these companies?
Sugartown Films & Documentary Projects
Speaker 3I'm the head of CineSongs, it's because I'm the only one to be honest. It's just the company who does the music supervising in films and television and the Sugartown Film Production. I run with a friend of mine and he's the co-head, oliver Husley. He's a musician and film producer and we have the company together since I started it, 2011. And he came in 2017, 18, something like that, and, as it says, it's a film production company. So we produced the Connie Plank documentation. So we just finished something about female artists in punk and new wave in the 70s and 80s in German speaking territories, and we will start to work on Munich Disco, which is about Munich and being the center of disco music in the 70s, with Giorgio Moroder and stuff like that. So he basically, I think, invented disco and I always wanted to do that because I'm such a fan and I think it's a very, very interesting topic. So we will start now trying to finance that.
Speaker 2I love that idea. That's a great idea. I haven't seen the Connie Plank documentary yet. That's an interesting project about the crowd rock legend. That's called the Potential of Noise and you were the executive producer on this, or the company.
Speaker 3Sugartown did it and I'm the producer, so I did it. Oliver wasn't on board at that time, so I had a co-producer, paul Sichler, who helped a lot, to be honest, because I have never done that before. So I did an internship an unpainted internship in my own company and I learned a lot, but it was really nice and, honestly, I'm really proud of that project. So many people still don't know who Connie was, especially in Germany, interestingly, because when you go out in the world, tom York and people all know who Connie Plank is, but if you go around in Germany, it might have changed now, but still there's so many people saying who? Who are you talking about? So that's why we wanted to do that.
Speaker 2Of course yeah, because I've known him for so long, but the music I was into as a youngster was by acts who quoted him as an inspiration, so, if anything, he had even more cultural impact than people everyone has heard of.
Speaker 3Yeah, I think there's no shame in working for a niche. It's nice, especially with Connie, because we've been on so many festivals with it. So there were these enthusiastic people who were just like, oh, I bought this Neue record and I saw his name. And then you just talk with people about this lovely Neue record and of course it's fan kind of thing. But there's no shame in talking about crazy stuff in the music world.
Speaker 2I'm a fan of mainstream but I'm also a fan of not mainstream, and with CineSongs, your music supervision company, you worked on the most recent Wim Wenders films, perfect Days in 2023, for example. Can I ask how your relationship with Wim Wenders started?
Speaker 3It started pretty easy, to be honest, because his former colleague and co-head of his company was a student when I did some lessons at the Berlin Film School and he became part of the company with Wim. And one day he called me and said do you want to meet Wim? And I said yes, and then we met and then it started and he did Palermo shooting at that time and so we had a lot of music in there. We even asked people to write songs for that. So that was actually a perfect beginning. And so we had a lot of music in there. We even asked people to write songs for that. So that was actually a perfect beginning.
Speaker 3And then, ever since, we worked with him and it's quite nice because Wim is very much into music, of course, but also he and the whole company. They're really loyal, so there's always the same people working on projects. It's like a family. So if you travel with Wim to film festivals because the film is shown there, then you're a part of the travel group. It's not like that someone gives you a time, say, come to the right coverage at nine, so you're part of the whole group. And yeah, we not only did the movies he did, but we also did the restorations because his foundation did buy all the old rights. So we had to replace a lot of music because in the early days no one did care about music rights so we had to replace them. So we were just renewing contracts with the old films. So it's been a long relationship since then.
Speaker 2You work mainly in the German-speaking markets, but not exclusively right.
Speaker 3I also work internationally. When someone needs to spend money in Germany and it's an international co-production, so they need someone doing the invoicing here. So then I come up, but it's mainly German or international co-productions where there's a German company involved. Talking about Germany, it's not a super huge market, it's a people's business. So if you know people, then you get your jobs because you know the people and you've worked for them before. So if you know people, then you get your jobs because you know the people and you've worked for them before.
Speaker 3And still there are many, many people in Germany producing things who just don't want to have like a publisher involved and they're always afraid of that. They only get the music the publisher wants them to get. So they want to be free and want to have someone who's really independent to give advice to them and not a company who is, of course, not only sending out their own music. And I think it's not very different to be a supervisor in Germany than in the rest of the world. Maybe it was in the old days, but now it's such a global business. Probably the only difference is that the German market is a strong market, but still there are not so many supervisors in Germany. Probably it's totally different in LA or in London, but in Germany it's a handful of people who do it on a regular basis, so it's not a huge or competitive market.
Speaker 2The Perfect Days project, the Wim Wenders film about the life of a public toilet cleaner in Tokyo. That was an example of a co-production between German and Japanese entities, wasn't it? What differences are there when there's a co-production between companies from different countries?
Music Supervision Challenges
Speaker 3It depends, but it was special in this case because I'm working for VIMS since 20 years and actually we came up with the idea because it was clear that it's going to be a Japanese company doing it, because in the beginning they asked him to come to Japan or to Tokyo and do a documentary about these new invented toilets. And then the idea came up not to do a documentary but within the budget of a documentary and with the shooting days, no sets, everything just steady cam. There came the idea to do a feature film out of it and it was clear that his German company would also be doing a part of it. But it wasn't really a co-production because there was no money coming from Germany, so it was a 100% financed thing from Japan. But Barbara and I Barbara Bandhoff, who's the music lawyer from Wim Benders and a very close friend of mine we decided it would be good, with our contacts, just to do the whole licensing via the German entity of Wim so that we have German contracts and stuff like that. So that's what we did and that made it a bit more complicated at the beginning, but not at the end.
Speaker 3It was just a little bit more difficult because the songs we used were such super worldwide hits. So I've never dealt with the Stones before, but we did. I've cleared Perfect Days by Lou Reed probably five times for Wim Wenders already, so that wasn't really difficult. The most difficult thing was to tell the Americans that Tokyo Toilets, which was the original title, was not something awkward, but just the toilets in Tokyo. So that was probably the most difficult thing about it, because when they read the synopsis it was like what's going on in the Tokyo toilets and we just know it's some sort of a documentary. It's a toilet cleaner. Yeah, nothing awkward.
Speaker 2When it came to the licensing of the music, what kind of challenges did you have, other than having to explain the concept of the film?
Speaker 3To get it for a proper price. That's normally the thing.
Speaker 3So to get all the media you need, especially when you have a US distributor, it can be really tricky because they want to have rights which are not given away in Germany or in Europe because it's not under European law. So you have a lot of discussions about that and besides that, we wanted to keep it in the budget. I think the most difficult thing was the only song we did not get, which was Prince Starfish and Coffee, and it was no budget. I think the most difficult thing was the only song we did not get, which was Prince Starfish and Coffee, and it was no chance. We tried everything for 10 months, asking everyone we know, going via Universal to the foundation or the estate, and no chance. We never got an answer, never, not even a prize. I don't know why.
Speaker 2What made you give up? Just the fact that the deadline was looming. Would you have ever given up on something like that?
Speaker 3Not really. But at a certain point you have to have something in the mix, so you have to replace it, and so we did. But I still think it's strange, because if you get a no, then it's okay, or if you get a price which no one can pay, okay, but if you never ever get an answer, it's like ghosting the music supervisor and that's just not really something you want to have. But on the other hand, they haven't been in that wonderful movie, so that's their problem.
Speaker 2Do you always have a plan B in your mind whenever you're going for a song?
Speaker 3anyway, even from the beginning of the project, I think you get started with a plan B when you get a feeling that it might be difficult or that it's going to be too expensive. Then I have a plan B, which is something either from a library or from a not so famous band. But directors have a tendency to believe in miracles. So until the very, very, very last end, they were just like maybe Bob Dylan is going to call me tomorrow and give his okay, and you're just like it's not going to happen. So here's my plan B. So yeah, so I have a plan B.
Speaker 2What about looking for those moments of inspiration? How does it feel when you come across a piece of music that you know is going to fit into some project? Do you still get very excited about finding new pieces of music?
Speaker 3Yeah, of course, the good and the bad thing is that everyone has an opinion about music. So everyone involved in a project has a taste, and so we have a lot of discussions about taste. And even if their taste is wrong, because it's just not the right music, period wise, whatever you're still having this discussion, yeah, but I like it. You're just like, okay, it's wrong, but you like it. Okay, but on the other hand, so you don't know if the piece you really love will ever be loved by someone else, but still, I'm collecting it, of course, and I have like Spotify or iTunes playlist where when I listen to something old which didn't ever come to my mind, then I just put it in there and to maybe grab it one day. I just did it with Break my Stripe by Matthew Wilder which I haven't heard for years.
Speaker 2And I just came up and I was just like one day I'm going to use it. There was a point you made that everyone has taste and a big part of your job is cutting through to the people whose taste and opinion matters in the project. And how much work does that take?
Speaker 3Actually, it depends on the open-mindedness of the people and it depends on the age, on the open-mindedness of the people and it depends on the age. So if you have people who are older, it could be really a problem to bring them some modern pop music, electronic music or hip-hop, and I think that's just because they're not grown up on it. So you either have people who are willing to listen to what other people are saying or you have people who are just narrow-minded and don't really care, and then you're just like OK, then I can't help them.
Speaker 2In your experience working with filmmakers and producers, how often do they grasp the importance of music in storytelling?
Speaker 3I think it's a character kind of thing. So some people are more into music and for them music is a unique part of storytelling, either if it's score or source music. And others are just not so interested in music. And it's not wrong or right, it's just. I think it depends on the movies. If you do a rom-com, people expect you to have songs in there, people know and to give a good feeling. So you need to have strong arguments for doing a rom-com without this kind of concept. But sometimes people do wonderful movies without a lot of music in there and if the movie is strong enough, then that could work perfectly. My experience is that whenever people come and say, okay, this is a movie that doesn't need music, I think it's not going to work in 90% of the time, because you really really have to have a strong picture and a strong story, because of course, music is not only there to express something, but it helps a lot. Certain genres wouldn't work without music. So I think music is really important, but some people are not really into music.
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean quite often music in films. You feel it rather than hear it. So that's also important, isn't it To create this audio experience over the visuals that you feel rather than hear?
Speaker 3Yeah, silence is a rhythm too, so I think it depends a lot on if you use music or if you don't use music, then you do it on purpose as well, and you can use music for so many different things. You could do it as a contradiction to what you see. You could use it to simply build bridges between the different stories within the movie. You can make people laugh. You can just be true in a way that you tell a certain period of life and you use the exact music which people would have listened to at that time, and so there's nothing in a movie which has more different aspects to it than music has, and that makes it so interesting but also difficult, on the other hand, because there's so many different things you can do with it.
Speaker 2Yeah, exactly, but there are a couple of filmmakers I can think of, such as Tarantino, such as probably Guy Ritchie, that there was a period where they were just making it really cool to have cool music in films and they were putting it front and centre as almost another character. Was this really interesting and helpful as a music supervisor that suddenly music was being talked about as a key feature in films?
Speaker 3Absolutely. I think they're the pioneers in that. Maybe you can add the Coen brothers.
Speaker 3I would have given my right hand to be part of these films. But I think you still have it in series, see Stranger Things, where they had the Kate Bush thing going on. Or I think the most influential series over the last years is Euphoria. It's just blew so many minds of people because the way they worked not only visual and story-wise but also with the music in that series and I think the tradition these guys mainly set up is still there and it's still working. It also depends on the movie.
Speaker 3If you have to do movies like Richie and I'm not a fan of his latest works, but it helps a lot to have songs in there who could say something. And I think it's the same with Tarantino. I didn't really like the last one, the Hollywood one, and I didn't really think the music was so good or so special. But you have these remarkable scenes in your head like Santa Esmeralda or Kill Bill and stuff like that. But he's a very special filmmaker and if you're not so cool kind of filmmaker then you probably would be totally lost the way to use music in this way.
Speaker 2I was going to ask you what strategies do you use to communicate the value of music to those who perhaps see it as a secondary commodity in the project rather than something that can be front and center?
The Impact of Music in Storytelling
Speaker 3I think the only chance you have is when you actually add music to the picture, because I've been doing it for a very long time and sometimes I'm pretty sure that it's going to work to add it together. And then you add it and you think like, oh no, it's not going to work. It's ironic all of a sudden or it's silly or whatever. So I think, also as an advice to myself and to everybody else, it's really really helpful to try out what music does to a scene, because it can do something totally different, even if it's a love scene with a love song, and all of a sudden it's totally silly and you're just like no, that's not going to work. So I think, trying to convince people that music is important, the only chance is to actually show them the scene with the song or the music or without. And then it depends on luck or taste or whatever if they follow you or not. And, as I said, to work against taste is almost impossible.
Speaker 3I think in the commercial world you call it the key listening experience. It's the music you listen to when you were 16 or 17,. First concert, kiss the girl, whatever. And this music stays with you and that's why people still go to the concerts where they have been when they were 17. So if someone is really into a certain kind of music because it was so important for them, it's very, very difficult to get rid of that and to open their mind up to something totally different. Once in a while there is a chance, but normally it's not. So you just try to convince them by showing what the music does or adds to the picture, which could be another layer on top, to be authentic, or to tell a different story underneath. So all these things music can do, but if they don't like it, you have no chance.
Speaker 2Is there a danger here that, if you're coming up against this quite a lot, that you would err on the side of caution? Rather than take risks in your decision-making, picking music, would you go more with the safer option that you think has better chance of being chosen, even though it's probably not as cutting edge or modern that you feel could fit the projects even better?
Speaker 3I wouldn't say it's a problem. But of course, if on the other side of the table the production company or the director has a totally different meaning or the thinking or taste, or it's a movie where you like to work on but you're not really interested in which happens so I'm not always working on projects I totally adore then you think about it and that sounds arrogant and I don't mean it that way. It could be a waste of time trying to convince people to do something really crazy if they're not into something really crazy.
Speaker 2Rather than crazy. Something really good as opposed to something bad.
Speaker 3Yeah, but it's sometimes, as I said, it's taste. Is it good music, is it not? Is it your taste, is it not? So I think, working as a music supervisor, it helps when you also think OK, I really put everything I want and all my energy in this because there's an open-minded director and we can really do something. And to also see when your expertise is not wanted or needed.
Speaker 2With this project, we're doing the podcast for the Europe In Sync Network. It's a platform that is designed to try to bridge the gaps between different players in the film and music industries, get them all in a room and talk about projects. There seems to be a lot of disconnection along the way. What do you think are the most common misunderstandings within the process, or things that go wrong when they don't need to go wrong? What changes do you think could happen to make better collaboration and understanding?
Budget Realities & Industry Relationships
Speaker 3It would be wonderful to be pretty early in a project and reading the script, talking with the people about the calculation and letting them know that the ideas they have are not matchable with the budget they have. That would help a lot if you could talk about that up front and not three weeks before the mixing. And to read a script and say, okay, there's a DJ at a wedding, what shall they play? Not let them play anything. But it's really hard. I think mainly on the creative side, if you have people who have really great ideas but the budget does not match it at all. And it's not that you have to have a lot of money, it's just money in comparison to your ideas. And if it's in the very beginning, you can think about other ideas. You can do all this when you have time. If it's three weeks before the mixing, you can't do it and that's just a shame because there's no room for creativity anymore. So I think that's just the most difficult thing to bring up the expectations a director, a producer has within a proper budget to make it work and to make it happen. And when I'm putting on my producer's hat then I know it's a thing about a financing structure. So if, especially when you're in Germany, you do a calculation and if you go to subsidies, they will check the calculation and if the budget for music is much higher than everything else, you have to tell them why. If you want to get 500,000 euros out of different areas in Germany and out of different funding systems, it depends on the calculation. And even if you do a music documentary, as I did twice, of course we knew that the music is an important part, but we had to convince everyone involved that we do it on a most favored nation basis and that we don't have millions of money for the music because otherwise you cannot finance it.
Speaker 3So I think it's a mixture and sometimes people just don't know or they think music is not that expensive. So there's some sort of an ignorance or not knowing as well. But it's not only that, it's also depending on the structure. And if you're not getting enough money for the financing for the movie, of course you go down. And the music budget is the most volatile budget in the whole production. So if you have a shooting day more, or you need a crane or something, you say, ah, that's the music budget, let's grab 10,000 euro out of it. So that's, I think, another thing which happens a lot, and sometimes people just don't know that music could be really expensive. And then you have discussion but it's really good for the band and you're just like I don't think so they're not interested in being in a student movie from Germany. It's not so helpful for Radiohead to be in this kind of movie.
Speaker 2How do you deal with sound alikes, then? How often does that come into the equation?
Speaker 3I try to avoid it, to be honest, because I think, first of all, I think every song is replaceable. The problem normally is that if you saw it or watched it for seven weeks within the scene in the editing room, in the dark, it's almost impossible to get it out of your head, but it doesn't mean that it couldn't be replaced even with something much better. So, first of all, I'm trying to avoid that they have these unclearable songs in the editing room for seven weeks and, as I said, everything is replaceable. I'm trying to find something else which is also working than to do a sound alike.
Speaker 3You can go to a library or you can ask a band you know who does a similar kind of music that Radiohead does, to keep in that example, but they have a unique attitude. And then you can ask them and say, okay, please don't do a sound alike of creep. But in your vision, what will you do with this scene? And I think that's far more creative than doing a sound alike. And also from the rights perspective, it could be really dangerous to do a sound alike, because everyone wants to be that it's so close as possible, but you don't want it to be as close as possible, because otherwise you might be getting a copyright infringement case, and so I'm always trying to find just different kind of tracks to replace it.
Speaker 2So I guess this is where AI comes in. It's obviously a hot topic for everybody at the moment, but you can see where perhaps people might start turning to it for music, for films and other projects. How far away are we from producers going? We'll just use that music.
Speaker 3We're not far away.
Speaker 2It could be done now.
Speaker 3It could be done now and if not, it's just around the corner. I think it's different when you have, like, high class series or movies, cinema movies, because you want Hauschka or you want Ludwig Göransson or whoever as a composer, because you want their unique sound. But I think, especially when you go to television the normal television, either in the UK or in Germany there's so many series and they always have music like someone did compose it, but it's not orchestra based or something, and I think this will be replaced pretty soon by AI, either by the composers who did that for 20 years, but also by production companies. I'm pretty sure If it's not done now, then it will be done in the future, of course.
Speaker 2Yeah, is that something that worries you?
Speaker 3Honestly, it doesn't worry me because I cannot change the world as it is future, of course. Yeah, is that something that worries you? Honestly, it doesn't worry me because I cannot change the world as it is and, of course, with new technologies, people always get to that. I still think that there will be many, many people, even if Spotify is one day full with AI-generated music, who still want the authentic bands. Some people still want them Not everyone, of course but I want a band or a personality behind it, even if I could not hear the difference. I'm using AI if I'm searching for ideas. So I have my chat GTP and I'm putting in crazy stuff like music to bake with marmalade songs similar to Coldplay but not Coldplay or something. And I'm just trying because I'm getting ideas in my head. But even if you tell them, don't put out Coldplay, it always ends with Coldplay, but not Coldplay or something. And I'm just trying because I'm getting ideas in my head. But even if you tell them, don't put out Coldplay, it always ends with Coldplay.
Speaker 2Yeah, I guess using it as a creative trigger is a very useful and a good idea as part of the creative process, but it does seem that pretty much all the projects you work on as a supervisor or now as an executive producer, authenticity is essential to those projects. We didn't mention yet the introduction of the streaming services to Germany. There seems to have been a big change across the board production companies, TV companies, how they approach projects. After the success of some Netflix productions, Amazon Prime coming into the market, has this had very much impact on the work you do or what in general in Germany? Has it changed?
Speaker 3I think it had a very big impact, first of all, on the whole industry, because when they came, there were so many series and stuff made, and it had an impact when two of the biggest ones stopped working in Germany because Sky closed and Paramount closed as well. So the industry is actually aching a bit because it used to be the very peak. You couldn't find a crew because everyone had work. Now it's gone down, so everyone is moaning about it. But also, I think when Netflix started, they were really open for interesting projects. They still are, but music for them is really important, not only because they like music, but they know that it's important for the audience as well. So you don't have to have this discussion that you need music with them because they know it's important.
Speaker 3So it took a while for the other production companies or the television in Germany to learn from that, but they learned. So now it's more important there. And it also had an impact, of course, on the way things were greenlighted, the way things were made, because it was much quicker. It's not better, because normally you don't have to have it done in half a year, which is very normal in the streaming world that you shoot and you edit while shooting and then five months later everything is done. So yeah, it had a very big impact. One can easily say that Most of the time a very good impact, but on the other hand, also, of course, some little side effects which no one really wanted, but still they are there has it.
Speaker 2Overall Americanized the market a bit more.
Streaming Services & German Market
Speaker 3I think you couldn't say Americanized in general, because they have German offices and they pretty much learned pretty early that if you just come with your American perspective on the German market it's not going to work because it's a different market. So you have to have people who work here and live here, especially when it comes to comedy and stuff like that. So you can't just pull your American blanket over everything. You can't just pull your American blanket over everything. But the way they work on a certain professional level, that's some sort of an Americanized kind of thing, which does not mean that it was not professional before, but it's a different world and I think it's in every country where they started because they are in general an American company with an American approach of entertainment. Let's call it like this You're also a radio DJ.
Speaker 2You've been doing that for quite a long time with Radio 1, the main Berlin Brandenburg radio station. Does this help with your job as a supervisor, when you're constantly looking for new music? It?
Speaker 3helps me a lot, to be honest. First of all because I'm getting a lot of promotion agency emails a day with just music to play on the radio. And I think it's special with Radio 1 because it's so famous for its very diverse music programs. So for creativity it helps a lot, I think, and it's always very interesting. If you talk to producers in Berlin who are listening either to Flux FM, another station, or Fritz or Radio 1. In Berlin, who are listening either to Flux FM, another station, or Fritz or Radio 1, you can see they know things which are played in the radio in Berlin but will never be played in Cologne or Munich. So if you talk to Munich producers or production companies, many of them probably have never heard of a band like Moderat, and everyone in Berlin has heard of Moderat because they're played on the radio and I think that makes it interesting to see how producers deal with it. Just to know bands.
Speaker 2You're much sought after as a moderator and an expert panelist at different music and film conferences, and you do a lot of teaching in different universities around Germany, so you do come across a lot of people from within the business as well as new people. Do you get new ideas from that? Do you feel like you're passing on your own expertise to other people?
Speaker 3I think it's always very interesting to talk to people because, of course, it gives you other perspectives in the way they work, the way they handle things. Sometimes they have a completely different system of working with music, and it's probably not my way, but it's interesting to see how they deal with it. I think being on a sync panel really increased over the years, just because syncing is more important for musicians nowadays, because you're not selling any records. You're selling records but you don't get any money out of it and you don't get any money out of Spotify. So doing sync is something which is relevant for musicians. So that's why probably every festival in the world has a sync panel and so many people still want to become composers, so there's a lot of panels on this case as well.
Speaker 3And I think education is pretty good to give people an overview and to let them know that it's difficult, that there could be a really interesting future, but it's not something where you just get money and you just get really rich.
Speaker 3So you have to tell them that it's the same. If you want to be an actor, you can be a superstar, but 90% of them are not. And also I really like to give away some knowledge or some not advice, that's too big. I'm not giving advice to people, but I don't like it when you sort of collect your contacts and not open it up. So if they're young people, if they're students, I think it's just come on, ask me If you need a contact. I give you the contact, because I'm not keeping all my contacts and not giving away anything of that, because I think there's room enough for all of us and it's just inspiring to talk to other people and see how they approach things. And of course, it's also interesting to know and to do a little bit of gossiping about the horrible producers and the horrible directors once in a while. So it's also pretty nice.
Speaker 2What are the special skills do you think are essential to be a good music supervisor?
Skills of a Music Supervisor
Speaker 3Besides mediation between the composer and the director, which I think is like 90% now, it's not creativity a certain knowledge of music, and if you don't know a certain kind of music, then you should know people you can ask. I think it's always good to ask people who are more into things than I am. So, for example, if you have like African music or something like that, I'm not an expert on that, so I just ask people who are experts on that. And I'm working pretty close with a friend and a supervisor from Austria, andreas Fritziger, and he's a classic expert and he knows things it's impossible for me to learn. So if you ask him, like I need a Ciamberlou piece from 1740 created by a woman, he can say, yeah, I have someone, and you're just like where does that knowledge come from? So I think working with people and being open-minded to bring in other ideas and knowledge is quite important, and everything is not always about creativity.
Speaker 3It's a lot of work sitting on your desk doing music cue sheets, clearing the rights, filling in. If you work for streamers, they're enormously horrible. Online music cue sheet systems Everyone has a different one, and so it's a lot of work sitting at your desk, a lot of administration, a lot of administration. Yes, if you would have asked me this 20 years ago, I would probably have said I don't like administration at all. But to be honest, I like copyright clearing. I'm really into it. It's a bit like Sherlock Holmes kind of thing, especially when you have certain tracks. You just really have to go and search and see okay, there was a change. There was a lawsuit between the drummer and the bass player, so who has the rights now? And the catalogue was sold 15 times, so who is in charge now? So I actually like that.
Speaker 2So you have to keep on top of the news in the business quite a lot, knowing who's owning which copyrights these days.
Speaker 3Yeah, but you can actually use the GEMA database search and then you see, okay, it used to be Warner Chapel, now it's BMG. So I'm reading this as I'm reading Vanity Fair and some film magazines. I'm also checking these kind of things in the musical world, but I'm not following the sales of catalogs around the world.
Speaker 2Something else that you're involved with is you're on the advisory board of the World Soundtrack Academy. What's that exactly?
Speaker 3Yeah, soundtrack Academy is as it says. It's an academy of composers around the world. There's also film music agents and some producers and it's a huge worldwide thing and it's based in Ghent, at the Ghent Film Festival. When they started, which is more than 20 years ago, they came up with that board. It used to be a lot of americans because they were the founders, so the guys and ladies of the big film music agencies are in there, but there's someone from s cap, there's someone from bmi and they open it up for more worldwide people.
Speaker 3So I'm on this, and there's anette against, who is a film music agent from germany as well, and there's severalette, gens, who is a film music agent from Germany as well, and there's several others and it's quite nice. We meet in Ghent every year and talk about the board and they give away the prizes and it's really a remarkable prize to win the World Soundtrack Academy Award, because there are not so many existing prizes just for film music in the world, and it's a very honorable prize and it's just a very, very nice community let's call it like this and it's very international and it helped me a lot just knowing them and, again, it's a people's business. It's good to know people. So that would be my advice, which I'm giving always also to the students either, if it's film producers or directors or composers, go out and meet people.
Speaker 2Good point and we'll leave it there. I know you've got a lot to do, but thank you for joining us today.
Speaker 3Pleasure. Thank you.
